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October 24, 2009

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David Michael

Those are all good points but they don't prove that reason doesn't matter. Even if reasonable people don't push their views hard, they do at least tend to defend their positions against stupid ones.

jameshigham

Does reason, does philosophy matter?

Of course they don’t. In politics - and especially on matters of freedom, there are powerful mechanisms selecting against reason:

Well said.

Paul Sagar

"Reason is, and ought only ever to be, the slave of the passions" - David Hume

The notion that reason motivates or is superior to emotions/interests/passions was put to bed in the 18th Century. I know it's hard for an economist to accept - Homo Economus etc - but 'reason' isn't what politics is about; it's about passions and interests. You can try and make your preferred passions and interests sound more authoritative and valuable and desirable by labelling them "reason", but ultimately that's just propaganda.

I recommend Hume's Treatise, Book III Part I Chapters 1-2.

chris

@ Paul - pre-behavioural economists traditionally accepted Hume's point: they have regarded tastes as given, and not subject to question.
One reason for this is that they accepted a point Hume made later - that "the moment we perceive the falsehood of any supposition...our passions yield to our reason without any opposition."
My problem is that, in politics at least, this isn't necessarily true, in part because talk is cheap. This raises important questions about the nature and legitimacy of democracy. If democracy isn't a form of public reason, what legitimacy does it have? Why should anyone consent to be governed by the (irrational or unjustified) passions of others?

Paul Sagar

Ok big queations. Beware that your statement from Hume is not a claim that reason defeats or dictates to passion, but that when we realize the world is different to how we thought, our passions immediately change accordingly. It's a claim about how reaon can inform, but never motivate. It always comes back to passion - I fear the economists may have misunderstood this point.

I will get back to your points re democracy later....

alanm crisps not dunked

Yes, long been haunted by the certainty of politicians - when a good knowledge of a subject introduces nuance and doubt.

Knowing a little about something makes you certain then. Good, glad I am clever and not juat weak and indicisive.

Paul Sagar

Before I can answer your question about democracy, I need to unpack the claims you are making.

When you write:

"If democracy isn't a form of public reason, what legitimacy does it have? Why should anyone consent to be governed by the (irrational or unjustified) passions of others?"

Do you mean public reason in the technical Rawlsian sense - e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_reason - or do you mean it in some other sense?

(If you mean it in the Rawlsian sense, did you actually mean to write "If democracy isn't amenable to a public reason requirement then what legitimacy does it have?"

See, I'm trying to work out whether your complaint is about the values of democracy, or its legitimacy as a decision-making mechanism. Bearing in mind that we tend to use the word "democracy" in both senses simultaneously.

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