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May 10, 2013

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FromArseToElbow

One small quibble: the UK Border Agency is responsible for customs control as well as immigration, so the figure you quote also includes the cost of anti-smuggling work.

I suspect if we opted for open borders in respect of immigration, the tangible savings would not be £2.3bn. That said, the quantum is not the issue, and likely to be easily outweighed by the net boost to GDP.

Ralph Musgrave

Of course it’s not just a “not a narrowly rational calculation of fiscal costs and benefits”. It also has much to do with whether we want to “enjoy” any more of the wondrous cultural benefits that certain immigrants bring, like showing us how to kill the cartoonists and authors we don’t like, how to mistreat women, how to be a good homophobe. I could go on for quite a while, but you get my drift.

Richard

People are not keen on cultural change. They are used to living in a country where "their" values dominate and where "they" are in a majority. That I suspect is the main reason for opposition to mass immigration. But I could be talking nonsense!

Master Shake

Ralph and Richard are right. Foreign cultures are often treated with respect and deference that is not afforded to natives. Indeed, politicians are always telling us that we should be "celebrating" our "differences", whatever that means.

What this seems to mean in practice however, is that the sexist, violent and homophobic beliefs held by the adherents of a certain brutal, cruel and repressive religion - Islam - are indulged and in fact welcomed. WHO CARES that they believe apostates must be executed...WHO CARES that they treat women like chattel...we must be "culturally sensitive" mustn't we!

Well screw that. It's no wonder the public hate immigration.

Keith

Good points.

UKIP and the Tories are Peddlers of "arguments" for prejudice.

But thats obvious unless you are bamboozled by the gutter press barons.

Keith

I am amused how the Racists among us are suddenly so fond of Gays. Now we hate Islamists as we love womens rights and am fond of the Gays. But Nail Ferguson showed what these people really think about sexuality and the GOP reveal what womens rights mean to them each day!! Are the Jews not bad enough for you to hate any more?

B

Why don't you play the ball and not the man Keith?

Racism is irrational - skin colour has no bearing on anything. Disapproval of Islam is perfectly rational for the reasons outlined in the previous comments.

It doesn't take much to be called a racist nowadays.

poe

Keith, as far as I'm aware, Jews don't contend you should be put to death for leaving the faith.

Chris

"You might object that policing the borders saves the taxpayer money to the extent that immigrants would be a drain on the welfare state. You'd be wrong. Most estimates show that immigrants are a small net benefit to the Exchequer."

Eh? That's like arguing we should close down maternity wards because infant mortality is so low.

Luke

Ok all you nice liberals whose concerns about immigration arise entirely from concern about gay rights, what is the correct amount to spend on the UK Border Agency? Double what we do now? Treble? And who else should be liable if it turns out they have had dealings with illegal immigrants? Employers and landlords obviously. Doctors? Hotels? Banks? Garages who do MOTs? Teachers? Charities providing English lessons?

Are you advocating an end to immigration at all costs, in spite all terror, and however long and hard the road? Are we talking total war, or something we'd like a bit less of, like litter?

Interested of Warwickshire

Keith, say you and I hated each other's guys and were havinh a row in your house one night. Then some guy with a machete starts threatening us both and trying to break in. Would you continue the row?

Neil

Why don't we pay the scroungers to police the borders then? Two birds, one stone.

theProle

Doesn't the fact that UKBA costs 2.3 billion say more about the fact that UKBA appears to be run by the sort of civil servants who would struggle laying on a decent drinking festival in a brewery, than the actual cost of keeping out illegal immigrants?

It's all only a diversionary tactic anyway - public anger is largely over legal migration from eastern europe, not the (comparatively small) number of illegals.

Personally, I'm in favour of open borders, but I'm also a believer in democracy, even when people vote got things I don't like - so ultimately if most people want to yank up the draw-bridge then that's what we should do.

Tracen

That's a smart way of thniikng about it.

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