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March 26, 2015

Comments

Stuart

And the exaggeration of the Left amplifies this.

For example, I am 52. We did "Eeny, Meanie, Miny, Mo" at school all the time. I've never seen it written down and certainly never thought about he words. Why would I - I was 8.

Clarkson started the rhyme and tried to stop himself. Off camera.
For that he got lambasted.Your article, reads well for me, till this.

One other example. My 85 year old Dad is afraid to mention PoC at all in case he uses the wrong words. He didn't live to his dotage for this.

Ben

Really really hate what Nu Labour did with "hat e" laws. It articulated perfectly what Nu Labour thinks:

"ordinary people are by nature horrible, we won't be able to persuade them they are wrong because they are thick - we have to ban this to save the dirty b*stards from themselves"

Disgusting. Can't comment on Clarkson as never watch him.

Igor Belanov

At heart the problem is that some people are deemed to be allowed to be offensive, a privilege that is denied to others.

At work, if you say what you think and blurt out ill-considered remarks that offend others, you are likely to be reprimanded, and if you take this further and assault someone, you will be sacked.

Clarkson is not stupid and will have known that his previous antics were popular and not serious enough to get him into deep water with the BBC, while he must have realised that hitting someone would. As such, I think he has probably provoked this himself, thinking that either public support would save his job, or that he would become a martyr in the eyes of his fans.

The BBC would have been better not publicising it as much and cancelling his contract more quietly.

An Alien Visitor

To follow om from what Igor said (but not in agreement), I think work is such a restrictive place these days, your are almost told how to think, that people do rebel against this and cheer on people who are clearly tossers. While I don't cheer Clarkson on and hate what he represents I think I hate the thought police even more.

I think this sort of thought control plays into the hands of the boss class. My experience of work over the last 10 or so years prompts me to think we are entering a period of neo Feudalism.

The left need reprimanding for being so complicit in this or accepting 'political correctness' too uncritically.

I understand that on the flip side we don't see the same level of casual racism, sexism etc on display but I still reject the mind control solution to these problems. I think a severe economic downturn will show them for their superficiality (if that hasn't already been demonstrated).

We should also challenge those who say they are champions of free speech, I often see that those who say they are free speech advocates often do everything in their power to close free speech down.

Count me as a leftist who believes in free speech with the caveat that if I see someone being racially abused I will step in!

From Arse To Elbow

Will Davies has an interesting post at Potlatch that intersects with this topic.

http://potlatch.typepad.com/weblog/2015/03/the-society-of-exit.html

Igor Belanov

@ An Alien Visitor

The point I'm trying to make is that if we ALL behaved in the manner that Clarkson does, inside or outside work, then society would pretty much fall apart in bickering, mistrust and violence. We should really be asking why we let certain people get away with it. The post that FATE links to at least raises this question.

Steven Clarke

@Igor

Mathematician Andre Weil in his autobiography:

"I could not count the times (for example, when I tell people I never vote in elections) that I have heard the objection: 'But if everyone were to behave like you...' - to which I usually reply that this possibility seems to me so implausible that I do not feel obligated to take it into account"

Clarkson knows that most people would never get away with what he does. Knowing what a big-shot he is, he only ever wonders what he can get away with.

Keith

We got here as the BBC has lost its managerial balls.

The team of people making the show took over control of it and turned it into a rich white mans bitch fest. Divorced from its original purpose as a review show for cars.

The irony is that this is a rare example of workers control, and thus what you advocate for on your blog.

Time for auntie to reassert Reithian moral vaulues and eliminate the racist pricks.

gastro george

Isn't this just the same as Bullingdon trashing bars or parked cars? They do what they like and their privilege and money somehow makes it OK. They're brought up this way, so it's normality.

Steven Clarke

@Gastro George

At the risk of economic imperialism - the 'price' of wrong behaviour is much lower for the Clarksons and Bullingdon Boys of the world - so it's no surprise they 'consume' more of it.

An Alien Visitor

"The point I'm trying to make is that if we ALL behaved in the manner that Clarkson does, inside or outside work, then society would pretty much fall apart in bickering, mistrust and violence."

The point is that most people don't behave like this (other than maybe sports training grounds), whatever the rules and regulations say.

Flip this on its head and say if we all were just nice to each other then the world would be so much better and we can see the problem with your line of reasoning. I am minded to quote Marx here and say it is economic factors that determine ideas and not the other way round.

Imagine if someone racially abuses someone at work and the other person punches them, should they both get the sack? Should they both get some sort of rehabilitation?

I thought the left preferred rehabilitation to punishment?

Yes, a worker may automatically get the sack if they are violent at work, doesn't mean we have to agree with that though.

Igor Belanov

But Clarkson hadn't been racially abused, nor had he been provoked or goaded into making offensive statements. He does this because he knows he can generally get away with it.

[i]Flip this on its head and say if we all were just nice to each other then the world would be so much better and we can see the problem with your line of reasoning. I am minded to quote Marx here and say it is economic factors that determine ideas and not the other way round.[/i]

I have difficulty understanding your point, or what Marx has to do with it. We don't have to be 'nice' to one another, but a degree of politeness and minding one's business is essential in society, and most people recognise this in their behaviour. It isn't generally considered wise to provoke, goad or offend people on a regular basis. The type of people who disregard these 'norms' tend to be those who command or covet some form of social or economic power, which is why attacks on real or imagined 'political correctness' are so common on the right-wing.

Ralph Musgrave

Chris is remarkably sexist for someone with relatively PC views. Witness his phrases “Many men believe as Bruce does…” and “One is white male resentment - a tendency for some men not to see their privilege..”. So white women aren’t privileged?

I’m incandescent with contrived righteous PC indignation.

Leslie48

Clarkson committed 'gross misconduct' at work and like the vast majority of us this gets him fired from his job. Period.

ChurmRincewind

I return to the fray. As Igor Belanov points out, "a degree of politeness and minding one's business is essential in society, and most people recognise this in their behaviour. It isn't generally considered wise to provoke, goad or offend people on a regular basis".

An example might be the use of the word "cunt", which we know offends, but for which Chris seems to have a particular affection. Thus your argument that "the type of people who disregard these 'norms' tend to be those who command or covet some form of social or economic power, which is why attacks on real or imagined 'political correctness' are so common on the right-wing" would seem to be belied here on Stumbling and Mumbling.

I am no fan of political correctness, and I see no reason why those who seek to disparage the black community should be banned from using the word "nigger", any more than those who seek to disparage women should be banned from using a such a strongly gendered insult such as "cunt".

But for Chris to criticise Jeremy Clarkson for the use of inappropriate language strikes me as misplaced to say the least.

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