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May 16, 2005

Comments

dearieme

What odds are you offering against our next P.M. being an Oxonian?

Angry_Economist

I never went to Oxford or Cambridge cos I am a northerner and thought both universities would be full of posh folks talking about horse riding, croquet and daddy's small yacht in Antibes and so forth. I was young and believed in the north-south stereotype so much.

I was wrong and wish I went to Oxford or Cambridge - now being a research professional, I reckon I would be better at my job as a result.

Of the folks I have met who studied at Oxford - some are a cut above and really sharp, but some are lame analysts who are only really good at debating. I suppose Oxford enhances debating skills and sometimes these take precedent over intellectual capacity, or can paper over the cracks of poor intellect or analytical ability.

But then I also met some mature students in Scotland with very sharp analytical minds who always wiped the floor with my Oxford educated friend...

dearieme

So we should choose our PMs from Oxonians or Scots? It'll be hard to get long odds against that for the next PM.

chris

I went to Oxford for the same reasons you stayed away, Amgry. I wanted to prove (to myself if no-one else) that I was just as clever as the posh kids.
My most valuable lesson was much the same as Thomas Sowell's. He's said (IIRC): "the one thing you learn at Harvard is not to look up to people who went to Harvard."

rjw

Although Cambridge has a heavier science focus, it also has a tutorial system and plenty of students studying economics, history, politics and sociology. And Cambridge also has a "Union" society for those wanting to pretend to be debating things.

So why the disparity between Oxford and Cambridge in terms of production of Cabinet ministers? Personally I think there are fewer Cambridge graduates in high political office as we have more integrity ; )

On the Sowell quote - I'm reminded of something Joan Robinson once said. It went something like this:

"one should not study economics to obtain a set of nice precise answers to economic questions. One should study economics in order to know how not to be fooled by economists"

dearieme

Who in God's name would look up to someone just because he went to Harvard? Bloody Edward Kennedy went to Harvard! A youngster in my family says that she's so glad that she's at Oxford because, amongst other things, they work her so much harder than her friends elsewhere get worked. There you are: Oxbridge for the protestant work ethic! No more effortless superiority! Horny-handed son of toil: off to Oxbridge with you!

Mark T

The most observant thing said about Oxford is that anybody that has been there will make sure you know about it within 7 minutes of meeting you. (Or mention it within a couple of lines as being their alma mater) Never fails.

dearieme

Three lines, Mr T, and no mention. Not you, then? By the way, how would you know if it failed?

Chris

Mark - I mentioned it merely to anticipate and reject the possible claim that I was merely being envious. Normally, I keep quiet(ish) about it - viz, pretty much every other one of my posts.

Angry_Economist

You may well find that most of the leading Scottish politicians were in the Glasgow University Debating Society! They started blowing off to us and each other very early on!

I think the nub of the matter is this - if someone is sharp, hard working and very intelligent and went to Oxford (or Cambridge), they are sh*t hot. If not, they are just like all the other average folks who went to any other uni, except they aren't as good as they think they are.

Then again, who wanted to spend all 3 or 4 years at uni/HE in the library? Whilst those getting a first spent all their time working, I spent some of my time in the bar talking crap and imitating Vic Reeves.

Johnny

Cambridge doesn't have tutorials at all, it has supervisions. Different kettle of fish, of course.

dearieme

Brown, Cook, Rifkind at GLASGOW Uni: pull the other one.

Mark T

I wouldn't know if it had failed........just that people who went to Cambridge (or anywhere else for that matter)don't seem to do the same. Proabbaly explains the politician thing too.

Angry_Economist

Johnny,

Granted Brown, Cook, Rifkind didn't, but these folks did:

Glasgow Univeristy graduates include: politicians Menzies Campbell, the late Donald Dewar: the first Minister of the Scottish Parliament, Charles Kennedy, Margaret & Winnie Ewing, the late John Smith and Sir Teddy Taylor...

The main point was many politicians were in debating societies...

dearieme

A.E.: accepted. A cheerful irrelevance - in my experience, those who seem fondest of their old Uni have been St Andrews and Aberdeen graduates. Perhaps Rifkind, Brown, Kennedy et al studied too far south. Or perhaps my aquaintances all huddled together against the cold.

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