Marxism, freedom & the Cold War

Ben Brogan's claim that Ralph Miliband was on the wrong side of "the struggle between freedom and communism" has been rebutted by Norm. There's more to add.

First, the attempt by the right - we can add Douglas Murray - to identify Marxists with Soviet apologists is very silly. There's a big strand within Marxism of libertarianism and even anarchism, which loathed the Soviet Union. For example, with the space of a few pages, Trotsky describes Stalinism as "vileness", "degeneration", "moral decay", "barbarism" and "lagging behind a cultured capitalism". In the Marxian circles I moved in in the early 80s, the debate wasn't about the merits of the Soviet Union, but rather about how best to describe its many inadequacies.

Secondly, let's ask: what sort of freedom did the pro-capitalist opponents of the Soviet Union in the mid-20th century believe in?

It certainly wasn't freedom for homosexuals, who suffered brutal repression. Nor was it freedom for young men. The slavery that was National Service did not end until 1963 - and some died during this time. Nor was there freedom for women; tough divorce laws and the legality of marital rape violated the basic principle of self-ownership. Nor was there free speech; not only did we have repressive libel laws, but also theatre censorship until 1968. Nor even was there some of the economic freedoms which today we take for granted; even the Tory governments of 1951-64 had exchange controls, laws against Sunday trading, more central planning than we have now, and public ownership of many of the commanding heights. Remember, Hayek dedicated the Road to Serfdom to "socialists of all parties", who ignored him for 30 years.

And this is not to mention Pinochet or McCarthyism...

Now, I'm not claiming here any moral equivalence between Stalinism and Conservatism. Instead, I'm making two points.

First, it is just plain stupid to pretend that the Cold War was a fight between Marxism and freedom. Many Marxists supported freedom and opposed the USSR, and many conservative Cold Warriors were enemies of freedom.

Secondly, it's not just Communists who had some evil ideas in the mid-20th century.

So, here's my offer to Ben Brogan and Douglas Murray. If you stop pretending that all Marxists are opposed to freedom, I'll not accuse Tories of murdering Alan Turing. 

Comments

[Neil Wilson]

You have a point of course.

However the fact of the matter is that Marxism, like Anarchism and even Socialism, are tainted words in the minds of the electorate. Those terms will have to be abandoned.

A clear win for the PR machine of Corporatism indeed, but that's the dirty fight we are in.

[The Stigler]

Conservative MPs today up and down the country, despite their free-market rhetoric oppose development of land by their owners, regardless of impact on others. Our wasted use of this resource is no better than the Soviet Union's wastage on potatoes.

And they support our system for deciding Head of State, despite it being closer to Cuba and North Korea than most countries in Europe or the western world.

[gastro george]

Nothing succeeds like the re-writing of history.

[Phil]

"Ben Brogan's claim that Ralph Miliband was on the wrong side of "the struggle between freedom and communism" has been rebutted by Norm."

Blimey Charlie - I was not expecting that. So we've got Norm, Michael Heseltine, Nick Clegg, John Moore and Charles Moore; they've got... Michael Gove, Douglas Murray and Dan Hodges. Taxi for Mr Levy.

[twitter.com/BorisWatch]

"they've got... Michael Gove, Douglas Murray and Dan Hodges. "

And Toby Young. Never forget Toby Young.

[Churm Rincewind]

Certainly it's absurd to identify Marxists as Soviet apologists. But isn't it equally absurd to identify opponents of the Soviet Union in the mid-20th century as anti-gay, anti-women, and anti-free speech? As for the suggestion that National Service was a form of slavery - well, I'm speechless.

[The Stigler]

Churn,

As for the suggestion that National Service was a form of slavery - well, I'm speechless.

Well, it only differed from slavery in that people got a wage as well as food and board. So, I guess that's closer to serfdom.

And a Conservative MP Philip Hollobone wants to bring it back in order to "inspire young people with self-respect, personal reliance, discipline and behavior", which isn't a million miles away from what the Leninist Young Communist League preached in the USSR. But to be fair, even that was voluntary.

[James Oswald]

... but the Tories really did murder Alan Turing.

You can't argue "I'm right because my opponents aren't perfect." Marxists are enemies of freedom more often than not. Sure, capitalists in the 60's weren't great on the whole gay rights thing, but Marxists murdered everyone they could get their hands on every time they gained power.

[Victor Wooten]

The greatest discovery of any generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitude. William James

[gastro george]

"Marxists murdered everyone they could get their hands on every time they gained power."

That's the most hysterical thing I've heard in a long time.

[Magpie]

"However the fact of the matter is that Marxism, like Anarchism and even Socialism, are tainted words in the minds of the electorate. Those terms will have to be abandoned."

On that account, fiscal deficit is every bit as "tainted". Are you advancing an Austerian policy now, or will just ask for a nicer sounding euphemism?

Would you also authorize us to abandon the term MMT?

[Dain]

The Soviet Union and China together murdered far more gays than a Pinochet or Mussolini or Hitler ever did, but since they didn't do it BECAUSE they were gay, that makes it less offensive. Somehow.

[Magpie]

"The Soviet Union and China together murdered far more gays than a Pinochet or Mussolini or Hitler ever did"

Just out of curiosity: how do you know? It would be nice if you could support that with data.

[Dain]

Just a back-of-hand calculation. SU and China are acknowledged to have killed what, e.g. 40 to 50 million? The other three didn't come close. Assuming gays are about evenly distributed across the population in all regions involved, SU and China killed more. Let's throw in Franco. Still more.

[Magpie]

I see. So, in reality you don't really know; you are only guessing.

The thing is, the Nazis did not pick gays at random, according to their prevalence in the general population. They deliberately targeted male and female gays for extermination (together with other "undesirables").

As a curious thing, the Nazis even had a concentration camp uniform system, where gays were identified with a pink triangular badge (Jews, for instance, had a yellow triangle; communists, socialists and social democrats, a red one, and so on):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badges

Incidentally, the followers of Pinochet and Franco (which you added), still target gays:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/28/neo-nazi-killing-gay-man-moves-chile-toward-law/

If you happen to be gay, maybe it would be an interesting experience for you to approach your local fascist branch.

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