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November 08, 2019


Nick Drew

You are assuming the "worst Labour can do" is limited to the economic sphere.

That is naive.


"Herein, I think, lies an under-appreciated reason for voting Labour..."

This has been my reasoning for a while. Corbyn is so disliked that he can be kept in check or, even more likely, get kicked out in no time. The knives will be out for Jezza on the Labour side with no hesitation.

In contrast, the Tories have been breaking laws, wrecking the state of the nation and going rogue on just about anything that should be meaningful. May and Johnson's empty promises, David Davis' useless tenure as Brexit secretary is forgiven and forgotten, Patel running her own foreign policy shop, austerity until they decide to drop it unceremoniously, universal credit, increase in child poverty, Hard Brexit and Canada+++ spoused by the same government like Schrodinger's cat in its box, Windrush, the ongoing white-wash and escape-goating that is Grenfell Tower disaster...the list goes on.

To give this crew the legitimacy of an electoral victory is like a self-blaming victim of domestic abuse but on a national scale. They are part of the establishment in a way that Corbyn will never be, and the establishment doesn't question itself. We're voting for more damage and telling ourselves that it would have been worse if we didn't hand this outfit power beyond their competence and certainly beyond their virtue.


@droog: To be honest, this reminds me somewhat of what is happening in the US too. As the fact that Donald Trump is not only a horrible person but an actual massive sociopathic crook becomes more and more inescapable, it has had barely any effect on his "base" at all. Even as his party follows policies that actively hurt them and don't achieve what they were promised, half of the US will still vote Republican.

It becomes distressingly clear that there are an alarming high proportion of folk (likely more than 40%) who are so tribal that nothing anyone can say or do will change their view on anything. Unfortunately, it also turns out that far more of them are 'Tory' than 'Labour' which makes for an inherent bias.

It is possible that the only viable solution in the short-term is to abolish parties altogether. Unfortunately, I am also well aware of why this is impossible in practical terms. So I think we're probably fsked and we've just been going through the motions for the last decade or so.


An underestimation of the challenge facing Labour and its policies is to regard the UK as actually being a liberal democracy.

When press ownership is so concentrated and operated by the the owners of capital, and parliamentary influence is largely the domain of the same capital lobbying, what power do voters really have with their infrequent and endlessly propagandised opportunities to have their say? This influence gap grows ever greater as inequality grows.

The phrase "Conservatives - Politics on easy" is ever truer.

Karton Bardak

Ürünlerimiz sağlıklı, hijyenik ve ergonomiktir. Biz karton bardak, plastik bardak, tahta karıştırıcı ve yan ürünlerinin tedariğini sağlarız.

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