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January 09, 2021

Comments

Ralph Musgrave

So Chris Dillow thinks there’s no significant amount of cancel culture and that anyone who think there is needs to “give their heads a wobble.” I suggest Chris Googles the words “deplatform” and “university”. He’ll find a large variety of people and organisations which claim there’s far too much deplatforming and “cancelling” taking place.

Tim Worstall

" And productivity – and therefore wages – has stagnated for almost 15 years. Exactly why this has happened is a matter of debate among economists."

An alternative not mentioned is that we're measuring output wrong. As an example I offer WhatsApp.

It charges nothing. It carries no advertising. It doesn't therefore, appear in any GDP measurement based upon production or consumption. The wages of the couple of hundred engineers running it will turn up, presumably, somewhere.

But costs incurred without any production being measured? That's a decrease in productivity. Yet a billion people get some or all of their telecoms from this supposed reduction in productivity.

We're measuring it wrong.

Yes, I know, there's always been some of this in the economy. There wouldn;t be a consumer surplus if there weren't something like this going on. My contention is that there's a lot, lot, more of it than there used to be.

I would argue that real wages are much higher than measured, that means productivity is too - and the reason is the mismeasurement of digital and free goods.

Zen

Having more foodbanks than MacDonald's hardly smacks of a successful high productivity economy. Rather low pay and a broken welfare state.

I for one am happy Hitler was no platformed by the allies after 1939!

Rich right wing pricks certainly have become good at whining about imaginary problems. It distracts from the real ones they have imposed on everyone else.

Dave Timoney

@Ralph, if you Google the word "ghost" you'll find a large variety of people and organisations that claim ghosts exist.

Dave Timoney

@Tim, it's quite possible that the aggregate value of "digital free goods" isn't being properly accounted for in GDP figures, but it doesn't follow that this means productivity is higher than reported.

What social media in the workplace (like email before it) allows is the offsetting of improved comms by time-wasting. A task that would once take half a day can be done in minutes, but you then use the gained time to chat with your mates.

The point of desktop IT, compared to the power loom, is that the rhythm of work is really set by the worker, & only loosely by the employer. Why do the latter allow this? Because they couldn't attract staff otherwise & they would rather provide free time than better wages.

As for WhatsApp, the slow integration of it with Facebook, which does carry ads, indicates that it was originally bought as an address book: it's the contacts & networks that matter, & they will be monetised.

Guano

"One of the great political divisions today is between those who acknowledge reality and those whose politics derive solely from the voices in their head." ........................

Yes indeed. I am reminded of Matthew d'Ancona defending the BBC showing Jeremy Corby against a backdrop of the Kremlin because it was a link that existed in his head.


"What’s going on here is more than just normal political lying, which at least can serve the function of getting one out of a tight spot or advancing a policy you might advocate on other grounds. It’s a gratuitous denial of basic reality." .........


"Which poses the question: why is post-truth politics so widespread?"


I agree - this kind of post-truth politics is widespread and very worrying. I think that part of it is because facing up to what is reality would mean facing up to some hard choices that politics finds very difficult. The inability of many in UK politics to admit, even now, that there was no justification for the invasion of Iraq I would put down to the fear of admitting that war is not a panacea and that the USA often gets things wrong - much mainstream politics finds it difficult to cope with this.

Our problem is that there a large number of these underlying assumptions that need examining and there isn't the space in today's UK politics to do it.

Mike Smith

Tried to facebook your post and got a 'rejected - breaches community standards' dialogue box!

JohnM

@Tim_Worstall

"How Facebook Plans to Monetize the Messaging Giant"

https://observer.com/2020/01/whatsapp-ads-facebook-monetization-payment-platform/

Jim

They have retreated from reality because in some respects that reality is unpleasant for them. Nail hit on head.

All Western governments are in a tight spot, their populations are useful as consumers but expensive as producers. The consumer base is large and will remain useful for another decade or three without governments doing anything much. But slowly and inexorably power and money is slipping eastwards.

The outer fringes are already feeling the pinch and the mantra is 'levelling up'. Won't happen, no real incentive to do the levelling and no real incentive to be levelled unless flogging internet influencer courses floats your boat. We are in a long cycle to reverse the over pricedness of the West. Think a century or two may do it while the cycle slowly revolves. Neither long term capitalists nor socialists with taxpayer's diminishing pockets seem likely to last the distance.

The only viable short term business opportunities I can see are flogging off the BBC and the NHS. We have plenty of shills promoting this notion, willing fools or paid knockers? Neither sale of any advantage to the populace but a good money extraction wheeze. Hardly matters on the 100 year timeframe, the value will have evaporated.

Some might think Brexit will help this process along. But too early by 100 years I think, any strategic advantage will be long since dissipated.

ltr

January 9, 2021

Coronavirus

UK

Cases   ( 3,017,409)
Deaths   ( 80,868)

Deaths per million   ( 1,188)

Germany

Cases   ( 1,914,328)
Deaths   ( 41,061)

Deaths per million   ( 489)

ltr

I am reminded of Matthew d'Ancona defending the BBC showing Jeremy Corby against a backdrop of the Kremlin because it was a link that existed in his head....

[ Completely undemocratic, completely shameful. ]

Blissex

"Cancel culture" used to be called "blacklisting", and used to be (and still mostly is) applied against centre-left (or "worse") people, see the Corbyn or Williamson etc. cases.

Culture makes indeed a big difference, for example to understand the difference between "freedom fighters" and "coup conspirators", have a look at the "peaceful demonstration" in the Hong Kong Legistlative Council building in July 2019, as from unimpeachably liberal sources, a couple of videos:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/07/01/hong-kong-protesters-legislative-council-matt-rivers-vpx.cnn
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/stories-49157807

“On 1 July 2019, hundreds of protesters stormed Hong Kong's Legislative Council, (Legco), spraying graffiti and defacing symbols of the Hong Kong law-making body. The ransacking of the government building marked a turning point in a protest movement against a now suspended extradition law.”

Blissex

«real wages are much higher than measured, that means productivity is too - and the reason is the mismeasurement of digital and free goods.»

I guess that the production of free goods like clean air, rivers, seas, uncongested roads, short commutes, true loves and sunny days, has much increased since Thatcher :-).

Also I am not aware of there being any free digital goods, they are all paid for their value by their customers (advertisers for example), and the vendors of digital goods tend to be very profitable, which sort of would be impossible if they were free of charge.

rsm

Blissex isn't aware of open source? Wikipedia is distributed free of charge. Berners-Lee put the World Wide Web protocols in the public domain, eschewing the opportunity to profit from intellectual property rights. Linux can be downloaded for free. Etc., etc...

Steven Evans

"One of the great political divisions today is between those who acknowledge reality and those whose politics derive solely from the voices in their head."

Writes the Marxist.

Blissex

«Blissex isn't aware of open source? Wikipedia is distributed free of charge.»

I was expecting that someone would make the moronic argument that *copyright* reduces enormously GDP, and the establishment of copyright laws a 1-2 centuries ago cut GDP and living standards a lot.

That is also the argument that every time I go to listen to a free performance of music, singing and speech making, called a mass in a church, my real wages are boosted as masses are as "free of charge" like Wikipedia. Or that every visit someone makes to a public library, the pre-digital version of Wikipedia, also dramatically increases their real wage, being "free of charge" too.

Never mind that Wikipedia, masses, public libraries are all paid for by "donations", and this is already accounted for in GDP and GDI.

Blissex

«There wouldn;t be a consumer surplus if there weren't something like this going on. My contention is that there's a lot, lot, more of it than there used to be.»
«@Tim, it's quite possible that the aggregate value of "digital free goods" isn't being properly accounted for in GDP figures»

Dear "Dave Timoney" etc. please don't fall for the "consumer surplus" shysterism, because that has a clear political content:

* Similarly to China today, post-WW2 politics was based on "limited democracy" where the workers accepted it in exchange for rising material standards of living.

* Material standards of living for workers have stopped rising, thus putting in danger the post-WW2 overall political deal.

* Therefore the elites, but only now that material production per person is not doing so well, are trying to persuade the gullibles that their standard of living is not objective but subjective: what matters is not production but enjoyment ("hedonics"): and since enjoyment is subjective and metaphysical, the sky is the limit.

As an example of the propaganda value of switching to a subjective and metaphysical measure of "GDP", here is Larry Summers being slightly embarrassed by a particularly extreme case:

"the extent to which differential productivity growth characterizes our economy is, I think, sometimes underappreciated. The Bureau of Labor Statistics normalizes the consumer price indices at 100 in the period 1982 to 1984. Below are some recent values of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for 2012. [...] Television sets at five stand out. That is obviously a reflection of a rather energetic hedonic effort by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. One suspects that equally energetic hedonic efforts are not applied to every consumer price."

The BLS in essence is arguing that between 1982 and 2012 the subjective, metaphysical enjoyment of each television set improved by 20 times, and this "ipso facto" meant that their price had "really", "actually", fallen by 16% compound per year over 20 years. Amazing news from America! :-)

“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be REDUCED to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours?… Was he, then, ALONE in the possession of a memory?”

Blissex

«There wouldn;t be a consumer surplus if there weren't something like this going on. My contention is that there's a lot, lot, more of it than there used to be.»
“thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week”

As to that not only adjustments of metaphysical, subjective "enjoyment" are currently used to "improve the accuracy" of prices, but also of GDP itself, here is a quote from BusinessWeek:

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-19/no-u-s-manufacturing-isn-t-really-booming
"Without adjusting for deflation, value added in computer and electronics manufacturing is up 45 percent since 1997. With the adjustments, it’s up 699 percent! What’s happening here is that the Bureau of Economic Analysis has been trying to account for vast improvements in the processing capacity and thus quality of computers, semiconductors and other electronics equipment."

And related to that:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2005/05/grossly-distorted-procedures.html
«The most current figure I have for hedonic adjustment to the GDP is 2.257 TRILLION dollars which is roughly 22% of the GDP.»

As they used to say: " YES SIR, the mess ration is excellent and plenty" :-).

PS: the blowing up of "real" USA GDP to account for much greater "enjoyment" should create a vast discrepancy with "real" USA GDI, but curiously it does not. There is probably an interesting story there (related to finance and property)...

Blissex

«There wouldn;t be a consumer surplus if there weren't something like this going on. My contention is that there's a lot, lot, more of it than there used to be.»
“thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week”

To give an idea of the systerism in the "digital consumer surplus" argument and the "a lot, a lot more" aspect of it, a publication by some propagandists claims that amounts to:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/22/why-uk-economy-needs-leap-of-imagination-harry-potter
“Overall, they say, our use of search engines, email and other products like social media and digital maps should cost as much as $25,700 (£19,560) a year per typical internet user if it was not free.”

The median income in the UK is around £21k, so try to imagine telling a typical "lazy loser" that he should not worry that his wage has been stagnant or falling in purchasing power for 40 years since Thatcher, or that getting to the end of the month is so hard with rents and bills hitting heavy, because the cellphone in his pocket is really, actually, seriously, "worth" a doubling (and rather more than that after-tax) of his wage! :-)

Guano

"One of the great political divisions today is between those who acknowledge reality and those whose politics derive solely from the voices in their head." Writes the Marxist.


Yes, ironic isn't it? But it is undoubtedly true that many people who consider themselves to be in the political mainstream are in denial about reality.

ltr

January 10, 2021

Coronavirus

UK

Cases   ( 3,072,349)
Deaths   ( 81,431)

Deaths per million   ( 1,196)

Germany

Cases   ( 1,929,353)
Deaths   ( 41,434)

Deaths per million   ( 494)

ltr

Culture makes indeed a big difference, for example to understand the difference between "freedom fighters" and "coup conspirators", have a look at the "peaceful demonstration" in the Hong Kong Legislative Council building in July 2019...

Thank you so much, Blissex

ltr

Culture makes indeed a big difference, for example to understand the difference between "freedom fighters" and "coup conspirators", have a look at the "peaceful demonstration" in the Hong Kong Legislative Council building in July 2019...

[ Remember, these violence advocates were invited to Washington and lauded in Congress and supported with Congressional sanctions. ]

ltr

January 11, 2021

Trump tries to incite a putsch, and his UK cheerleaders reveal their own contempt for democracy

Would be democratic dictators, elected heads of state who want to ensure they can never lose an election, should know the first rule to staying in power. It is to control a sufficient amount of the media. Convincing your faithful that the mainstream media is fake news is not enough. What that sufficient amount is will depend on many factors, including the voting system for President. It may be, for example, that given the advantages a united right wing socially conservative party has in the UK, control of a majority of newspapers and a compliant BBC may be sufficient to ensure Johnson is PM for as long as he likes.

Trump also has the advantage of a biased system (the electoral college), but he did not have enough control of the media to win the 2020 election, or provide sufficient credence to his pretense that he really won. Fox News, his once biggest media supporter, called the election for Biden. But he came close, with nearly 48% of the vote and by small numbers in the key electoral college states. A large part of that 48% actually believe he won. We were not far away from a second Trump term.

When would be democratic dictators lose elections, they have a choice. They can either accept defeat, or attempt to overthrow democracy. Donald Trump, having exhausted every legal means to stay in power (and some illegal ones), took the ultimate step last week and organised a putsch against Congress as it was affirming his successor. What seemed fairly harmless outside the Capitol was anything but inside. The objective of at least some of those inside was to capture politicians who had incurred Trump’s ire. Five people are dead, including one of the policemen who were bravely defending politicians as they were evacuated.

Trump attempted to capture through his appointments the institutions that ensure the survival of democracy, much as Johnson is now doing in the UK....

-- Simon Wren-Lewis

Kaganovitch

Well imagine this situation: you are First League major team playing against a slovakian club in a return Champion League match. You won 4-0 at home, you're overconfident and even arrogant. In order to preserve your stars, you mostly sent a group of substitutes to play in Bratislava. The problem is that you're know led by 0-5 and only a few seconds to play. What can you do? Too late for bribery, too late to review your tactics...just need to wait until the next season. I think this describes the current state of western world industry. If I continue my First league story, what I would do, as a president would be to fire the coach for somebody less arrogant, that would be exhanching, for example, Trump against a sort of american Deng Xiaoping.

You think Mr Deng was not democratic? So much the better, we don't need the democratic bla-bla-bla, we need to reempower workers, not consumers.

ltr

January 11, 2021

Coronavirus

UK

Cases   ( 3,118,518)
Deaths   ( 81,960)

Deaths per million   ( 1,204)

Germany

Cases   ( 1,941,119)
Deaths   ( 42,097)

Deaths per million   ( 502)

MJW

People shouldn't get too distracted by the alt-right freak show, yes, it's suits the purpose of certain factions who exploit it, but it isn't as important to the policy agenda as the noise it makes suggests. Contrast it to how progressive agendas with potential for popular support end up hijacked by wokeish cultists and charlatans, losing popular interest as they tenuously stretch the point. Take Phil's comment about 'cap doffing, imperial nostalgia', this type of bollocks is a fantasy existing only in the imaginations of professional gobshites rinsing 'anti-imperialist' schtick; they need to keep it alive because they define themselves professionally in opposition to it. For the majority it doesn't even register, it's something their grandparents saw the fag end of.

rsm

Blissex should look up "externality". GDP is a political figure reflecting political values. Intellectually honest statisticians would include error bars for GDP; they don't, because the margins are so wide as to make them useless for public policy. GDP is over half made up. Donations are imputed; how can you know donations come from wages and not money created out of thin air by private banks in financial markets? My TSLA stock went up 14k%, that's not measured by GDP. GDP should be abandoned as a measurement of anything other than economic la-la-land imputations bearing no relation to out-the-window reality.

rsm

Tldr: how do you include Wikipedia's productivity in GDP? Is the BLS really using wikipedia's reported donations and pretending they are sales that pay wages? But that has no relation to what wikipedia is actually producing, nor what contributors are getting paid.

Blissex's story is bunk.

ltr

January 12, 2021

Coronavirus

UK

Cases   ( 3,164,051)
Deaths   ( 83,203)

Deaths per million   ( 1,222)

Germany

Cases   ( 1,957,492)
Deaths   ( 43,203)

Deaths per million   ( 515)

Big Nose

The productivity gains have been swallowed by the high cost of finance and asset price inflation.

Its what happens when private is allowed to create money without democratic control.

We voted for it, honest.

Remember?

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