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February 14, 2022

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rsm

Didn't the period held up as desirable, late 80s to dot com crash, result in yuppies and increasing inequality? Don't your periods of shrinking state result in increasing private power, then some market panic or pretext of an existential threat is used to increase state power again?

Is growth a silly societal goal that has only increased suicides, because despite Ben Friedman's attempts to show otherwise, growth just produces inequality?

ltr

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=M5nF

January 30, 2018

United States Federal, State and Local Government Spending as a share of Gross Domestic Product, 1948-2021

ltr

The state of the economy is a stronger determinant of the share of public spending in GDP than is the ideology of the government....

[ Really important. ]

ltr

If you are sincere about wanting to shrink government spending as a share of GDP, you cannot support the Tory party as it currently exists. Given the party’s lurch towards illiberalism, however, you cannot support Labour either.

[ Having read this essay through yet again, I find the analysis brilliant. ]

Jim

Johnson et al have handed Starmer a golden opportunity - the incompetence of Brexit added to having no idea where to take the UK economy. Add in the corruption and dishonesty shown up over the last 5 years hands Starmer the gift of the century.

Starmer can claim Brexit looked like a 'good' idea but incompetently handled, we need housing and probably public housing in quantity like it or not. Do away with so much secrecy until Ministers are more frightened of the courts and the judges and the regulators than they are of the Prime Minister or anyone else.

To achieve this will require a brave electoral strategy - crucify the corrupt, open up Whitehall to bright sunlight. There may be no magic bullet to fix our economy but he can ensure the corrupt and incompetent go hungry and no long live off the public purse.

Blissex

«the incompetence of Brexit added to having no idea where to take the UK economy»

The usual hallucination of silly "leftoids" in full display: brexit has had a tiny (but negative) impact overall, and "the economy" (that is, housing cost inflation) is booming.

«we need housing and probably public housing in quantity like it or not.»

I guess that incumbents in desirable areas really need less housebuilding.

«To achieve this will require a brave electoral strategy»

I doubt that Starmer will turn back, throw under the bus "aspirational" affluent propertied tory voters, and campaign to the left of Corbyn to win the votes of the "pushed behind" people and areas.

«the corrupt and incompetent go hungry and no long live off the public purse»

That includes most of finance and most property owners, whose fortunes have been made by the Tresury and BoE "lending" or spending hundreds and hundreds of billions of pounds from the public purse.

Almar

The article's comments about the TME/GDP in the early years of the Thatcher and Blair governments do not necessarily have the implication suggested. It is very likely that the reason for the apparently counter-intuitive TME/GDP changes is that it takes a year or two for planned changes in Government Expnditure to come into effect.

Blissex

«The article's comments about the TME/GDP in the early years of the Thatcher and Blair governments»

Those have a much bigger issue than just "it takes a year or two for planned changes in Government Expnditure". The dominant aspect of those years was scottish oil output, which was surging massively.

D

Surely there's some choices we can make about what the state does and doesn't do that affects the size of the state?

aragon

To answer D

Yes, but don't expect any from our current politicians.

First we could redistribute wealth via FDR 'soak the rich' taxes.

Inheritance Tax, Land Value Taxes, Tax Wealth, Tax Capital Gains.

Then their are public works:
e.g. FDR's New Deal 1 & 2.

And more fundamental reforms, I have mentioned before:

Address: Finances creationb o0f currency. Perhaps a (Central Bank) digital currency (Sterling not Bitcoin).

Address: Reject (Not reform) Intellectual Property (Except Trademarks).

Address: Monopoly

Address: Monospony.

Through Anti-Trust legislation.

A Basic Income.

For day (or less week).

Reform of Casual (Gig) Economy.

Onshore resource extraction/production

Invest in Research in Energy, Materials, Technology, and Biology etc.

Invest in Infrastructure (New Deal - N.B Not Green).

I am sure with more effort a better answer could be arrived at, but it won't happen.

Most would involve an expqantion of the state as resources are redirected, but some like abolishing Intellectual Property would shrink the state.

Aim for what K. Eric Drexler calls 'Radical Abundance' through atomic precision manufacture/or Nano Technology.

Fusion energy would be Radical Abundance of Energy.

This contrasts with the Stone Age of the Greens, the Serfdom of the Conservatives and Wokeness of Labour (Red Tories).

You have nothing to loose but your chains!

Now that is a manifesto.

ltr

Surely there's some choices we can make about what the state does and doesn't do that affects the size of the state?

[ Good point, and I would argue that now government economic direction is needed more in the UK than in the last 40 years, since Brexit has changed the competitiveness of the economy and public policy will need to compensate. ]

Blissex

«Surely there's some choices we can make about what the state does and doesn't do that affects the size of the state?»

Given a certain social environment, the government's choices as to the taxing and spending of the state influence the distribution of living standards far more than the overall level. Rather than support employment and production the Treasury has chosen to spend hundreds of billions on bailing out the City and the property owners, and the BoE have expanded their balance sheet by trillions to gift huge capital gains to the City and property owners. Those have been distributional choices, not about the size of the state.

Regardless, the "size of the state" debate beloved by right-wingers is just distraction tactics: for right-wingers what matters is not how big or small the state is, but who benefits from the big state. Lots of law-and-order, lots of spending to boost property values in the south-east, lots of backstopping finance and property, keeping interest rates low and credit booming, are not exactly small state politics. The usual relevant quotes:

George Osborne: “A credible fiscal plan allows you to have a looser monetary policy than would otherwise be the case. My approach is to be fiscally conservative but monetarily active.”

George Osborne: “Hopefully we will get a little housing boom and everyone will be happy as property values go up”

David Cameron: “«It is hard to overstate the fundamental importance of low interest rates for an economy as indebted as ours… …and the unthinkable damage that a sharp rise in interest rates would do. When you’ve got a mountain of private sector debt, built up during the boom… …low interest rates mean indebted businesses and families don’t have to spend every spare pound just paying their interest bills.”

Is that small-state "laissez-faire" politics? Of course not. It is just "small state for you, big state for us", "capitalism for losers, socialism for winners".

ltr

Given a certain social environment, the government's choices as to the taxing and spending of the state influence the distribution of living standards far more than the overall level....

[ Really important argument. ]

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