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February 12, 2023

Comments

Phil

What I don't understand is why the centre-left plays this game as well. I'm thinking of all those journalists and commentators who went out looking for former Labour voters of retirement age with small-c conservative views, and of course found them. It would have been just as easy to go out looking for people who had moved towards Labour under Corbyn (the former eco-warrior, the diehard trade unionist, the radicalised Guardian reader...), but nobody ever thought to do that. Why not, though? I blame Tony Blair, but only as a placeholder/starting guess - I genuinely don't understand it.

ltr

It would have been just as easy to go out looking for people who had moved towards Labour under Corbyn (the former eco-warrior, the diehard trade unionist, the radicalised Guardian reader...), but nobody ever thought to do that. Why not, though?

[ Wonderful comment. The answer is, of course, the posh savagery of Tony Blair, but also of a self-serving media-class that falsely portrayed Jeremy Corbyn first as a communist then as anti-Semitic.

Remember, the BBC began by overtly portraying Corbyn as a Russian communist. The following anti-Semitic portrayals were entirely false but frightening. ]

ltr

[If] we are not debating other things such as falling real wages, stagnant productivity, the social murder that is austerity or the failure of British capitalism. And guess who that suits?

[Perfect; and that surely goes for the disdain repeatedly expressed for China, when China should be the ideal economic partner for Britain.]

Laban

"The answer is that the right are not interested in the democratic ideal of equal representation for everyone."

I think that's called argument by assertion.

rsm

《the left risks being sucked onto the battlefield the right wants - that of culture rather than economics.》

Until the left embraces a strong basic income, who cares?

ltr

"The answer is that the right are not interested in the democratic ideal of equal representation for everyone."

I think that's called argument by assertion.

[ No, that's called an obvious truth as Tories undermine the industrial base or infrastructure base of Britain while isolating Britain from countries with which Britain should be partnered. ]

D

In politics and the media, the personally ambitious are massively over represented on all sides.

ltr

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64640069

February 15, 2023

Jeremy Corbyn won’t be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer
By Chas Geiger

[ This betrayal of the Labour tradition is unforgivable for me. I am appalled, and will never support a Party that so betrays its heritage. ]

Blissex

«What I don't understand is why the centre-left plays this game as well. [...] I blame Tony Blair, but only as a placeholder/starting guess - I genuinely don't understand it.»

The long term reason I guess are:

* The upper class have become fed up with sharing income and wealth with the lower classes.

* A chunk of the lower classes and much of the middle class now vote as if they were upper class people because they own property, thanks to the social-democratic policies of left-wing parties and labor unions.

* Consequently the upper classes have worked hard to compromise the leadership of the parties of the left, and many leaders of the parties of the left have thought that their base should be the new property-owning middle and and some lower classes.

As to Blair he claims he converted to "contrism" (thatcherism plus identity politics) at this telling point:

http://www.britishpoliticalspeech.org/speech-archive.htm?speech=202
“I can vividly recall the exact moment that I knew the last election was lost. I was canvassing in the Midlands on an ordinary suburban estate. I met a man polishing his Ford Sierra, self-employed electrician, Dad always voted Labour. He used to vote Labour, he said, but he bought his own home, he had set up his own business, he was doing quite nicely, so he said I’ve become a Tory. He was not rich but he was doing better than he did, and as far as he was concerned, being better off meant being Tory too.”

rsm

From the point of view of the upper class, did they create their wealth in financial markets such that the lower class never produced any of it? So why should they be taxed for being nonviolently successful?

Next question: why shouldn't the government print money (and index incomes to price rises, thus eliminating real effects of inflation) to help the lower class, thus leveraging the same technique of money creation that the upper class used to become so wealthy?

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