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April 02, 2024

Comments

Phil

A - now departed - friend of mine was lucky enough to see a rocket launch at Baikonur. He said it made him feel immensely proud - of the human race. *We* did that, dammit!

Lenin: "On hearing [Bach] I proudly, maybe somewhat naively, think: See! people are able to produce such marvels!"

Capitalism isn't necessarily the enemy of rocketry, but it can certainly dispense with music. But music endures. Thanks for saying all this.

Chris

I prefer to veer away from this hyperbole and go with the simple old fashioned view.

There are two types of music; the stuff you like and the stuff you don't.

I always add, 'plus the stuff you haven't heard yet...'

ltr

Alexandra Wilson and Ian Pace fear that it is being sidelined because of concerns about elitism and its associations with colonialism.

Classical music, Western and Eastern, African and Latin American, is performed before excited, appreciative audiences all through China.

Potterji

There are only two types of music - good music and 80s music.

Jan Wiklund

This extreme compartmentalization of music seems to be an effect of the English class-ridden society. True, Pierre Bourdieu, who said that he could pin-point every cultural taste to a class-fraction, was a Frenchman but France in our days seems more relaxed. The small countryside town where I live (dominated by wine-production) has a musical tradition with every kind of music mixed into it. The municipal high school (which also teaches music) has an orchestra that among other things gives a New Year concert with all kinds of music. In the late April there is a Brass Festival, also with all kinds of music (provided that it is brass).

I think this kind of mixture of traditions is good. It could be even better, one could mix it within one piece of music. One of my best musical experiences the last couple of years was listening to Charlie Haden playing Ravel’s piano concert in B major. He started it straight, but he couldn’t avoid some jazz improvisations now and then. But that is perhaps what classical composers like Grieg and Dvořák did 140 years ago when they imported folk music into the classical tradition.

You said some people disagreed and thought it was harmful ”appropriation” when musicians from western countries incorporated for example African music into theirs. I think that is bunkum. When classical composers 140 years ago incorporated folk music into their music this was a boost for folk music. And when Paul Simon sang South African music it was a boost to South African music. When Astor Piazzolla played with Argentinian tango some Argentians protested, but his gambit made people interested in Argentinian tango. Music is made to mix and has always mixed, as Swedish folk music Grand Old Man Ale Möller said when somebody accused him for playing in a West African band. Only rigid disciplinarians can have anything against it.

Jan Wiklund

When I read through what I wrote above I am remembered of Brazilian musician and minister of culture Gilberto Gil who in both his capacities explicitely defended this attitude. He called it "cannibalization". And if he can, so can I....

rsm

If you try to reproduce music you like to listen to, does it become pretty obvious pretty quickly that there is an aspect to the music that transcends societal concerns about this and that, and society is revealed as trying to control one's thoughts even as one practices music, which is just so human, and part of why some of us try to escape into music, which easily survives outside of humans in birds, for example?

Jan Wiklund

In a way I can understand that embattled people may feel threatened when others play "their" music. But I think they are wrong. When white American people started to play and listen to black Americans' music this was a step towards citizens' rights. It made it more impossible to oppress black people.

I think one can generalize this. It is only when you think of other people as extremely "Other" that you can see them as enemies. This is one reason why vulnerable minorities shouldn't retreat behind fences towards the world but try to mix as much as possible into majorities.

Only majorities can defeat the present rentier capitalism.

ltr

"When white American people started to play and listen to black Americans' music this was a step towards citizens' rights. It made it more impossible to oppress black people."

Really fine insight about art generally:

https://twitter.com/thinking_panda/status/1644368570141507584

ShanghaiPanda @thinking_panda

President Xi told a story to President Macron:

Chinese ancient musicians Yu Boya and Zhong Ziqi's friendship was strengthened by music. Boya played a piece of music that only Ziqi could understand, demonstrating that true friendship requires mutual understanding and appreciation.

11:56 AM · Apr 7, 2023

rsm

What does Xi think of Cui Jian, whose concert in Beijing just weeks before the Tiananmen Square incident I actually attended, observing CCP troops keeping people in their seats not letting them dance in the aisles?

《The musician visited the student protesters on Tiananmen Square during the ill-fated protests, giving a concert to support the hunger strikers 15 days before the government’s violent crackdown. He sang “Nothing to My Name,” and “A Piece of Red Cloth,” which he performed with a red blindfold over his eyes.

“Nothing to My Name,” originally a song whose character asks his sweetheart to love him even though he has nothing, became an anthem for the student protesters. The musician was refused permission to play major venues in Beijing for years afterwards, according to foreign media.》

ltr

What does Xi think...

[ Always but always, racial prejudice. Got to despise 1.4 billion people. ]

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