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May 24, 2024

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Kester Pembroke

"Yet another weak-link problem is monetary policy. For Milton Friedman good policy (pdf) was a weak-link problem: “a negative proposition: avoid major mistakes.” The strong-link problem - boosting economic growth - requires other policies."

You're forgetting the other automatic stabiliser - the currency exchange rate.

What everybody misses in MMT, largely because they are usually American, is Warren's analysis of the floating FX system. What a largely static tax base (land value tax) does is anchor the FX exchange by providing a constant demand for the currency.

You don't want the level of tax to auto stabilise that much and you certainly don't want it to start hard and then ease off as behaviour changes as a net effect. You also don't want to end up creating a perverse effect as we see now with fuel duty where certain characters start talking about 'black holes' in the budget if we move to EVs.

"Herein, however, lies a problem - incentives."

With a levy/subsidy hypothecated pairing nobody can play the 'black hole' game. It's crystal clear what spending drops as the tax raised disappears.

Tax does fund discretionary spending in MMT, just at physical level not money level. Everything is still tax and spend once the JG auto stabiliser is in place.

Mike

"the sh*tmedia will brand the inevitable failures as a waste of taxpayers' money"

spot on, Britain can never have an industrial strategy because it once subsidised a crap car in the 70s

rsm

"But bankers were incentivized to increase returns and take on risk - that is to chase strong links."

What has changed? And didn't CDS cover the weak link risk, except rumors and a spreading panic about a default wave that never materialized led irrational traders to devalue even the safe assets that the insurance held as collateral? So what is wrong with relying on the Fed to act as a value buyer in spreading, emotional panics to prevent contagion to the real economy?

Blissex

«A weak-link problem is where success depends upon the quality of the worst component, whereas a strong-link problem is where it depends upon the quality of the best.»

These used to be called differently:

MINMAX: minimize the maximum loss.
MAXMAX: maximize the maximum win.

There are other similar concepts, for example:

MAXMIN: maximize the minimum win.

They can be combined as primary and secondary goals, even if often they are conflicting.

Blissex

«Britain can never have an industrial strategy because it once subsidised a crap car in the 70s»

That myth of "no industrial strategy" is about as baseless as the myth of "austerity" because the governments of the past 40 years have all intervened massively in the markets to pick winners, that is finance, property, higher education, and secondarily pharma and defense, with both colossal amounts of public money and with ultra-favourable regulation and policy, for example:

Osborne: «It was up to the Bank of England, he added, to support demand over the coming months. “A credible fiscal plan allows you to have a looser monetary policy than would otherwise be the case. My approach is to be fiscally conservative but monetarily active.”»

Osborne: «Hopefully we will get a little housing boom and everyone will be happy as property values go up»

Cameron: «It is hard to overstate the fundamental importance of low interest rates for an economy as indebted as ours… …and the unthinkable damage that a sharp rise in interest rates would do. When you’ve got a mountain of private sector debt, built up during the boom… …low interest rates mean indebted businesses and families don’t have to spend every spare pound just paying their interest bills.»

In particular the governments of the past 40 years have spent many many times more on subsidising finance and property than the "socialist" governments of the past spent keeping BL etc. going. Just one example (the balance sheet of the BoE shows how much bigger state generosity has been to the failed finance and property industries):

http://www.coppolacomment.com/2018/01/the-carillion-whitewash.html
«RBS was deeply insolvent. Rescuing it cost the U.K. Government £45bn, and RBS has lost a further £58bn since. Nearly ten years after the crisis, it is still in majority public ownership.»

The point that ultra-neoliberal "The Economist" loudly called for huge state spending to save "jobs for the precious scions of the elite" in the City:

http://www.economist.com/node/21542417/
“Britain will one day wake up to discover that it has lost one of the world's most successful business clusters, and the best hope the next generation has of earning a decent living.”

Blissex

«The questions are: what do we want our institutions to select for or against;»

I think this used to be called "politics" and used to be about big conflicts of interests among classes, not a generic "we", but them vs. us. The technical questions that follow:

«how well do they do such selections? and; how might we improve them?»

Seem also rather minor compared to "politics", answers are easy to find and try. However given that "we are all thatcherites now" (Mandelson) and "we are all in the same boat" (Cameron) I guess that we are at "end the of history" (Hegel, Fukuyama) and "politics" is over. :-)

rsm

《colossal amounts of public money》

Is it only politics based on faulty, sycophantic economists, that say that printed money has to somehow be "paid back" to satisfy the Zero-Sum Gods?

Jan Wiklund

It's not entirely clear that poor countries only need to think of weak-link matters. Alice Amsden has pointed out that those poor countries that have advanced have focussed on upgrading, not roads. They have discriminated against low-technology and tried to break into high-income countries' monopolies – like when South Korea's military dictator threatened then-textile producer Hyundai's CEO with prison if he didn't develop it into a shipyard instead.

This was what the US and Germany did in the 19th century, Japan and South Korea did in the 20th and what China did from the 1970s. Getting rich, on a national level, is all about breaking into rich countries' monopolies.

Blissex

«Getting rich, on a national level, is all about breaking into rich countries' monopolies.»

That is a good insight but that applies to *relative* riches. To become rich in an absolute sense there is only one way, and it is to substitute vegetable powered (animal and human) labor with oil powered (engine) labor.

"Energy and the english industrial revolution (2013): “A coal miner who consumes in his own body about 3,500 Calories a day will, if he mines 500 pounds of coal, produce coal with a heat value 500 times the heat value of the food which he consumed while mining it. At 20 per cent efficiency he expends about 1 horsepower-hour of mechanical energy to get the coal. Now, if the coal he mines is burned in a steam engine of even 1 per cent efficiency it will yield about 27 horsepower-hours of mechanical energy. The surplus of mechanical energy gained would thus be 26 horsepower-hours, or the equivalent of 26 man-days per man-day.”

Blissex

“Getting rich, on a national level, is all about breaking into rich countries' monopolies.”

One crude way that political economists work use is the average price per kg of a country's exports (just goods or both goods and services).

«substitute vegetable powered (animal and human) labor with oil powered (engine) labor.»

Indeed related to the above it matters quite a lot if the productivity of oil is used to make flip-flops (low price per pkg) or telecom switches (high price per kg).

David Landes in his excellent "The wealth and poverty of nations" makes this important point:

D Landes this is the most important one:

“The gains from trade are unequal. As history has shown, some countries will do much better than others. The primary reason is that comparative advantage is not the same for all, and that some activities are more lucrative and productive and than others. (A dollar is not a dollar is not a dollar.) They require and yield greater gains in knowledge and know-how, within and without. [...] Comparative advantage is not fixed and it can move for or against.”

Blissex

«those poor countries that have advanced have focussed on upgrading, not roads. They have discriminated against low-technology and tried to break into high-income countries' monopolies»

I think that according to our blogger poor countries become rich by making their best qualified and most active people mass-emigrate to rich countries, just like the USA, Japan, Taiwan, South-Korea, Singapore did :-).

According to Joe Biden poor countries become rich when they take in lots of foreign immigrants:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/biden-japan-xenophobic-rcna150332
«Biden said the U.S. economy was growing in part “because we welcome immigrants. Think about it. Why is China stalling so bad economically?” he said. “Why is Japan having trouble? Why is India? Because they’re xenophobic. They don’t want immigrants.”»

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/25/how-strong-is-indias-economy
«Yet despite its slick tech campuses, India is still a semirural society [...] Out of a working-age population of 1bn, only 100m or so have a formal job. Most of the rest are stuck in casual work or joblessness.»

rsm

"One crude way that political economists work use is the average price per kg of a country's exports (just goods or both goods and services)."

Why myopically ignore the far greater trade volume in virtual, financial goods? In other words, if worldwide household expenditures are around $90 trillion (see OECD (2024), Household spending (indicator). doi: 10.1787/b5f46047-en (Accessed on 28 May 2024) per year, how much more of an influence on prices does financial trading have, where BIS statistics (see https://data.bis.org/topics/OTC_DER/BIS,WS_OTC_DERIV2,1.0/H.A.A.A.5J.A.5J.A.TO1.TO1.A.A.3.C ) indicates a volume of $600 trillion per year?

Jan Wiklund

Blissex | May 28, 2024 at 08:49 PM:

According to modern development economists, such as Amsden, Ha-Joon Chang, Erik Reinert et al - and also Wallerstein, by the way – the more advanced, and therefore more difficult to produce, the more you can charge for the produce.

If course trade is a relative thing. You may earn a lot if you are advanced/heavily capitalized, or you can earn very little, if at all, if you are poor and only able to cut sugarcane. But that's the thing: it is salutary that poor countries get into the niches of the rich ones so that advantages are evened out on the global level.

It's a hard way, and so far few have succeeded. But those who have succeeded have behaved in much the same way, and I put in this reservation just to show that it is not all about weak-link.

Jan Wiklund

And, to continue:

The reason why a por country should get out of for example cutting sugarcane or exporting hair for wigs as South Korea did before industrialization, is that wealth is a product of economies of scale, and there is no economies of scale in produces like the above. Only industry has.

And only those industries where competition is weak bring in the big cash.

In a way a country is in the same situation as a growth company. Or at least partially: there must be at least some strong links.

If you don't believe me, ask the Chinese.

Blissex

"According to modern development economists, such as Amsden, Ha-Joon Chang, Erik Reinert et al - and also Wallerstein, by the way – the more advanced, and therefore more difficult to produce, the more you can charge for the produce."

That is at the same time *obvious* and highly misleading propaganda: it is a derivative of the Ayn Rand/Robert Gordon propaganda that "creative geniuses" create all wealth by innovating business practices or inventing new technologies.

Now imagine that using oil fueled machines some factory produces 200 woven baskets a day, and another produces 200 jet engine a year: obviously the one producing jet engines a year will be able to command a much higher margin.

But without oil the first factory would be able to produce 10 woven baskets a day, and the second 5 jet engines a year, and of course the second one would still be able to command much higher margins, but most of the wealth would have disappeared in both cases.

So again the crude "price per kg" influences *relative* incomes, but *absolute* incomes depend almost entirely on the widespread and efficient use of oil to feed machines.

"wealth is a product of economies of scale"

Economies of scale are vastly overrated, again because of propaganda (CEO pay depends mostly on the size of their business, being mostly a rent).

Consider the case of an oil-powered big press that can stamp a car door out of a steel ingot:
it is enormously more productive than a small press never mind some workers with anvils and hammers.

But very quickly it is pointless to build an even bigger one, and it is actually counterproductive, so many factories have several such presses. Same for smelters etc.

In particular there are some papers showing that economies of scale are very difficult to achieve beyond a fairly small size in banking and other services, and 80-90% of modern economies are in services, some of them pointless (which may explain quite a bit).

Blissex

«But very quickly it is pointless to build an even bigger one, and it is actually counterproductive, so many factories have several such presses»

The point at which instead of bigger-better instances of a machines/complex you put in several means economies of scale have nearly disappeared. There are still probably *some* in putting several identical machines in the same location (e.g. multiple smaller nuclear generators at the same site), but they are second- and third-order compared to the big deal.

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