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September 03, 2024

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keith

A long winded way to say these people are corrupt, and morally bankrupt.

redpesto

That quote about the flute suggests he didn't think he'd be the next James Galway, so he quit; it doesn't explain why he still plays football when he's nowhere near Arsenal first-team material or a manager on a par with Wenger. Less about 'the best' and more about being 'the boss' (e.g. captain of an amateur side)?

Luis Enrique

this is to the side of what you are writing about here, but I am frustrated by the criticisms I see from the left. The point that government finances differ from household finances does not imply the government faces no constraints on how much it can spend, and all the criticism I am seeing from the left is that Labour is choosing austerity because it wants to, and could be spending much more on all manner of things no problem, if it chose to. It comes across as wishful thinking to me. I can believe the government has more room that Reeves seems to think, but I'd appreciate more effort being put into making that case and saying how far it goes. I also think critics might want to be a bit forward looking here, and consider whether the government is giving itself some room for future spending increases. I am probably going to mark myself out as a naïve fool now, but I still expect them to remove the 2 child cap before too long, for example.

Luis Enrique

(I like that your link to 'socially useless' financial sector takes us to a paper about asset managers selflessly striving away to make sure information is incorporated into asset prices, without being rewarded by returns)

Blissex

«government finances differ from household finances does not imply the government faces no constraints on how much it can spend»

That is just the delusionist wing of MMT, the proper MMTers say that the only constraint on government spending is the availability of real resources, which is quite correct but a bit disingenuous (happily glossing over how to ensure the availability of those real resources and over the distinction between domestic and imported real resources).

«and all the criticism I am seeing from the left is that Labour is choosing austerity because it wants to, and could be spending much more on all manner of things no problem, if it chose to»

That criticism is quite correct, because the state can secure a lot of real resources by either printing money if there are unused real resources pr by transferring real resources from the private to the public side. It is also somewhat disingenuous top because printing money can only be used to secure unused *domestic* real resources (foreign suppliers want to be paid in "hard currency" and cannot be forced to take a national currency as payment), and transferring from private to public is called "tax and spend" and it cannot be just "the rich", most of the tax base is made by the middle and working class.

So transferring substantial real resources from the private to the public side means transferring them from the private consumption of the middle and lower classes and that is hard to make popular.

«I can believe the government has more room that Reeves seems to think»

The problem is simple: the core constituency of all main parties is "Middle England" voters, whose living standard depend very much on property profits, which depend very much on low interest rates that is monetary loosening, which given a fixed inflation target and the lack of will of substantially increasing taxes on the great majority of voters can only be done by fiscal tightening ("monetary dominance").

Blissex

«monetary loosening, which given a fixed inflation target and the lack of will of substantially increasing taxes on the great majority of voters can only be done by fiscal tightening ("monetary dominance").»

My usual quote:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/sep/23/stock-market-rout-eurozone-crisis
«Osborne [...] insisted that he had no intention of amending his tough deficit reduction plans. It was up to the Bank of England, he added, to support demand over the coming months.

"A credible fiscal plan allows you to have a looser monetary policy than would otherwise be the case. My approach is to be fiscally conservative but monetarily active."»

That is most likely the position of Starmer and Reeves too: they must be acutely aware that Starmer's party got rather fewer votes than Corbyn's Labour in 2019 despite Johnson's Conservative being very popular in 2019 also because of booming property profits) and Sunak's Conservatives being very unpopular in 2024 also because of property profits nugatory since 2022. Also they must be keenly aware of this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x0g8nkzmzo
«in over 170 of the Conservative seats they lost, the Reform vote was greater than the margin of the Conservatives' defeat.»

So Starmer and Reeves can only have the same goals as Cameron and Osborne in 2010: to redistribute from the lower classes to "Middle England" via higher property profits powered by cheap credit and immigration, without increasing taxes on "Middle England", and that means a hard fiscal tightening focused on the lower classes.

Blissex

«consider whether the government is giving itself some room for future spending increases. I am probably going to mark myself out as a naïve fool now, but I still expect them to remove the 2 child cap before too long»

Symbolic gestures may happen, but the overriding electoral consideration of Starmer's party seems to be whether most policies benefit "Middle England" voters, just as it was the main one for Mandelson and Blair in 1997-2010.

Luis Enrique

Blissex you are recognising the existence of constraints but then saying it's correct to say the govt "could be spending much more on all manner of things no problem, if it chose to" ... I think there would/could be problems if govt tried to spend at the levels required to please its critics from the left.

Luis Enrique

here is Blanchflower in Guardian "There are all kinds of options for funding public services, including the Treasury issuing a bond that the Bank of England buys. That is quantitative easing, used in the great recession of 2008-09" but of course QE was not used to finance a meaningful increase in government expenditure, so how that would play out is not revealed by history of QE. Everyone accepts at some point that if you keeping trying to money finance more govt expenditure, you start to see inflation ramp and increases in real activity peter out - so at some point the government has to start saying no to things.

Where is the evidence / where are the arguments that Labour is currently a long way from that point?

Blissex

«I think there would/could be problems if govt tried to spend at the levels required to please its critics from the left.»
«if you keeping trying to money finance more govt expenditure, you start to see inflation ramp and increases in real activity peter out - so at some point the government has to start saying no to things»

As I wrote above the state can also simply *transfer* real resources from the (domestic) private to the public side, without resorting to any money financing, and the only limit is nationalizing 100% of GDP, which is not so imminent :-)

Blissex

«Blanchflower in Guardian "There are all kinds of options for funding public services, including the Treasury issuing a bond that the Bank of England buys. That is quantitative easing, used in the great recession of 2008-09"»

Blanchflower is using (probably deliberately) the "wrong" terminology as "Treasury issuing a bond that the Bank of England buys" is not QE, but OMT ("outright monetary operations" in ECB terminology). QE was used to rearrange the liquidity/maturity profile of "the public" by buying *existing* (not newly issued) state debt for cash (thus shifting the financial position of "the public" into higher liquidity and longer term debt, as "cash" in effect is unlimited maturity debt).

«but of course QE was not used to finance a meaningful increase in government expenditure»

QE in part (it also has the effect of supporting the price of existing state debts), but more importantly outright monetary operations" were used to keep interest rates low (for the benefit of property and other speculators) because the BoE is not exactly meant to be a "bond vigilante" and they can easily take enormous nominal capital losses on bond if interest rates do go up.

rsm

《Everyone accepts at some point that if you keeping trying to money finance more govt expenditure, you start to see inflation ramp and increases in real activity peter out》

Is this anything more than mood affiliation? Since the richer people get the more virtual, financial products they consume, and since traditional old mainstream economic scarcity assumptions do not apply to virtual, fictitious goods, why not simply treat inflation as noise (see Fischer Black, "Noise") and adapt to it using indexation as Israel did successfully for decades?

rsm

《might it be aspects of capitalism itself - such as rentierism, vested interests and inequality - that are holding back growth?》

What if rentierism is a convenient distraction to employ people in a busy work that is only about fictitious virtual things so they stop using making money as an excuse to treat the actual physical world so harshly?

Alex

Reeves' language makes sense in this context: she's not even trying to talk to economists

Why on earth would she do that? This reveals a remarkable level of professional egoism. It's not as if they're a big or important social group or political constituency and you can't say we've been well served by their advice.

Less snarkily, if she wants their advice there are far better ways to seek it, so the point just reduces to "person speaks in register appropriate to interlocutor", or really just "person speaks", as literally everyone does that.

Luis Enrique

Blissex this "the state can also simply *transfer* real resources from the (domestic) private to the public side" sounds easier said than done to me.

(on QE/OMT - a former BoE staffer recently told me if the BoE is active in the secondary market, that affects the primary market so the distinction is not as strong as depicted).

Blissex

«“[...] *transfer* real resources from the (domestic) private to the public side" sounds easier said than done to me»

It used to be called "tax-and-spend". It worked for a few post-WW2 decades until the great english middle class got huge property profits (effectively private taxes extracted from the lower class) so they decided that they did not need the "spend" side and wanted to cut the "tax" side too.

As you wrote:

«the criticism I am seeing from the left is that Labour is choosing austerity because it wants to, and could be spending much more on all manner of things no problem, if it chose to. It comes across as wishful thinking to me»

Whether to do print-and-spend, tax-and-spend, or print-and-cut (as Osborne did and Reeves likely will do too) are all political choices with different distributional impacts, and the government could do (within pretty wide limits) any of them «if it chose to» as it is in office. That is not wishful thinking, it is just about choosing to favour some interests over others.

Kester Pembroke

Blissex, I believe that is a strawman most of the MMT economists support significant bank regulation. This would free up resources for the Job Guarantee to implemented.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161106173519/http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2014/11/the-sovereign-money-illusion.html

"The correct approach, as highlighted by the MMT view, is to reduce bank lending by banning its use for anything that isn't constructive. Bill Mitchell regularly suggests that 97% of financial transactions should be illegal. You should narrow banks directly by taking action rather than indirectly by 'influence'. Then you can leave the price of loans low - allowing those projects with a low marginal efficiency of capital to receive funding. In a world with ever decreasing returns on useful projects that is important."

https://web.archive.org/web/20161106173519/http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=29532

Full proposal here

https://web.archive.org/web/20161106173840/http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2013/05/making-banks-work.html

Kester Pembroke

Since only capital development lending would exists (business lending not taking account collateral) and the banks left would be agency business deliver state funds to business with 0% overdrafts the central bank and don't take deposits, the debt could be safely monetarised and HPM would not result inflation.

Blissex

«"The correct approach, as highlighted by the MMT view, is to reduce bank lending by banning its use for anything that isn't constructive.[...]"»

That is an example of one way of doing a "*transfer* real resources from the (domestic) private to the public side" and is (nearly) equivalent to 100% taxation on all speculative capital gains and incomes.

It is such a good idea that I wonder why nobody thought about it before and I guess it will be easy to implement because all those "Middle England" people who make lots of money from property or finance will not vote against it because we all know that they vote on values and ideas and not their "book" :-).

«Since only capital development lending would exists (business lending not taking account collateral) and the banks left would be agency business deliver state funds to business with 0% overdrafts»

Perhaps Rachel Reeves would be pleased to have her job title changed to "The People's Commissar For National Investment". :-)

Kester Pembroke

Blissex, For the same reason there is no significant inflation from the entire private sector repo market, which similarly pumps trillions of 'liquidity' into the US economy every single day.

The Fed did the repos for free and over a longer duration. Turns out that doesn't do anything much other than demonstrate how a belief in the One True Interest Rate doesn't translate into an effect on the ground.

Kester Pembroke

Blissex, your view on this idea rotating tether in space planes climb up and get boost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqwpQarrDwk

Kester Pembroke

To prevent another Liz Truss we ensure they go bust. If we can stop the Russians using Sterling, we can stop the speculators.

Speculators need to hold Sterling and need somebody to sell it to. That somebody is buying Sterling for a reason

Jabn Wiklund

On the other hand, if one doesn't want to change anything as a government, what is one's business of being there? Just linger on?

Luis Enrique

Blissex, oh I didn't realise you meant tax and spend

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